Comments on: Sitting on abortion in Labour http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/ If there wasn't one before, it's time we started it... Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:31:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Kate Belgrave http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10513 Kate Belgrave Fri, 16 May 2008 10:11:28 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10513 'traditionally conservative on enforcing their liberalism' has taken me a while to get my tiny mind around it, but I think I like that line! ‘traditionally conservative on enforcing their liberalism’

has taken me a while to get my tiny mind around it, but I think I like that line!

]]> By: thomas http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10512 thomas Fri, 16 May 2008 10:02:11 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10512 Ha ha, I like the line "Labour has been traditionally liberal on abortion law," it's just that they are traditionally conservative on enforcing their liberalism! Means, ends etc etc. Ha ha, I like the line “Labour has been traditionally liberal on abortion law,” it’s just that they are traditionally conservative on enforcing their liberalism!

Means, ends etc etc.

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10506 Kate Belgrave Fri, 16 May 2008 08:16:14 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10506 'This is not meant necessarily to be another hatchet job on the Labour party, just by the way.' Strike that. What am I saying. Of course the above post is another hatchet job on the Labour party - or on the government, I should say. ‘This is not meant necessarily to be another hatchet job on the Labour party, just by the way.’

Strike that. What am I saying. Of course the above post is another hatchet job on the Labour party - or on the government, I should say.

]]> By: Kate Belgrave http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10505 Kate Belgrave Fri, 16 May 2008 08:04:29 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10505 Shuggy - interesting point, but yes, what I am essentially saying is that the government can instruct its MPs how to vote, even on a free vote. I had a long interview with Emily Thornberry yesterday where we discussed exactly that. I'll publish that article and audio in the next few days: suffice to say that she acknowledged that it was possible for government to send a firm message down the line re: the 'right' way to vote on a free vote on abortion amendments, and that it would not be out of place for the Labour party to do that, given that it was traditionally liberal on abortion law anyway, but that that wouldn't happen in this instance. Would that then make Gordon a crazed dictator? Possibly, but there are times when there's justification in strong leadership, and this is one of those times. A strong party line in this instance is about making sure the troops are organised and in a position to stand up to the religious right/conservative political opportunists. As Thornberry said to me yesterday, there are a lot of Labour MPs who are still dithering on the 24 week time limit. Gordon is in a position to help them focus. And why not? Everyone else is lobbying the ditherers. It is my view that Gordon Brown could make known - very firmly - that there is a Labour party line on amending abortion and that his MPs are expected to toe it, free vote or no. I think 'dither' is an entirely appropriate word when it comes to our Gordon. Brown has already compromised on free votes on various aspects of the HFEB in response to pressure applied by Catholic members of his cabinet. I did not see that as an instance of strong leadership. As for partisan politics - well, can of worms and all that: where would you draw the line between firm leadership and a strong party line on the 'right' liberal issues, and letting the god-squad run riot? This is not meant necessarily to be another hatchet job on the Labour party, just by the way. I think several Labour MPs like Thornberry and Clark have been excellent. Clark did dither when I asked her where the party was heading on this one, though, and I don't see why the liberal left shouldn't ask what it's doing to protect a woman's right to choose and whether Labour MPs think their comrades are going to do the right thing by us chicks. I do think Gordie boy could crack the whip. If only I ruled the world... Etc Shuggy - interesting point, but yes, what I am essentially saying is that the government can instruct its MPs how to vote, even on a free vote.

I had a long interview with Emily Thornberry yesterday where we discussed exactly that. I’ll publish that article and audio in the next few days: suffice to say that she acknowledged that it was possible for government to send a firm message down the line re: the ‘right’ way to vote on a free vote on abortion amendments, and that it would not be out of place for the Labour party to do that, given that it was traditionally liberal on abortion law anyway, but that that wouldn’t happen in this instance.

Would that then make Gordon a crazed dictator? Possibly, but there are times when there’s justification in strong leadership, and this is one of those times. A strong party line in this instance is about making sure the troops are organised and in a position to stand up to the religious right/conservative political opportunists. As Thornberry said to me yesterday, there are a lot of Labour MPs who are still dithering on the 24 week time limit. Gordon is in a position to help them focus. And why not? Everyone else is lobbying the ditherers.

It is my view that Gordon Brown could make known - very firmly - that there is a Labour party line on amending abortion and that his MPs are expected to toe it, free vote or no.

I think ‘dither’ is an entirely appropriate word when it comes to our Gordon. Brown has already compromised on free votes on various aspects of the HFEB in response to pressure applied by Catholic members of his cabinet. I did not see that as an instance of strong leadership. As for partisan politics - well, can of worms and all that: where would you draw the line between firm leadership and a strong party line on the ‘right’ liberal issues, and letting the god-squad run riot?

This is not meant necessarily to be another hatchet job on the Labour party, just by the way. I think several Labour MPs like Thornberry and Clark have been excellent. Clark did dither when I asked her where the party was heading on this one, though, and I don’t see why the liberal left shouldn’t ask what it’s doing to protect a woman’s right to choose and whether Labour MPs think their comrades are going to do the right thing by us chicks. I do think Gordie boy could crack the whip.

If only I ruled the world…

Etc

]]> By: Shuggy http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10491 Shuggy Thu, 15 May 2008 22:59:43 +0000 http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/15/sitting-on-abortion-in-labour/#comment-10491 "or does it mean that Gordon Brown is still permitting his limping troops to dither?" I wouldn't have thought it possible but finally we have a criticism of Gordon Brown that I feel the need to defend him against. He isn't permitting anything - except a free vote. Conventional on these issues as it should be. Surely you can't think it would be desirable for abortion to be a politically partisan issue in the way it has been in the United States? “or does it mean that Gordon Brown is still permitting his limping troops to dither?”

I wouldn’t have thought it possible but finally we have a criticism of Gordon Brown that I feel the need to defend him against. He isn’t permitting anything - except a free vote. Conventional on these issues as it should be. Surely you can’t think it would be desirable for abortion to be a politically partisan issue in the way it has been in the United States?

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