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	<title>Comments on: Who else wants to be a progressive?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/</link>
	<description>If there wasn't one before, it's time we started it...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: ad</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10409</link>
		<dc:creator>ad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 17:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10409</guid>
		<description>Sunny, a reactionary is someone who wants to change the country to be as it was at some point in the past, if the term has any meaning. Not just someone who opposes the changes you happen to approve of.

A Tory who wanted to radically change the NHS would almost certainly be opposed by many on the Left. Would they all be reactionaries?

Wanting to ban homosexuality would be reactionary. But not "opposition to allowing lesbian mothers to have kids through IVF".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sunny, a reactionary is someone who wants to change the country to be as it was at some point in the past, if the term has any meaning. Not just someone who opposes the changes you happen to approve of.</p>
<p>A Tory who wanted to radically change the NHS would almost certainly be opposed by many on the Left. Would they all be reactionaries?</p>
<p>Wanting to ban homosexuality would be reactionary. But not &#8220;opposition to allowing lesbian mothers to have kids through IVF&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny Hundal</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10406</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny Hundal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 15:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10406</guid>
		<description>I'd agree with Liam Murray's post and on the view that he's trying to go back to old school compassionate conservatism. But then, the Tories are still reactionary.

Consider their opposition to allowing lesbian mothers to have kids through IVF. Their anti-poverty policies are rubbish. (not that Labour is much better)... there is no compassion in their immigration policy. 

What I mean is, apart from jumping on the environment bandwagon, how does all this translate into policies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d agree with Liam Murray&#8217;s post and on the view that he&#8217;s trying to go back to old school compassionate conservatism. But then, the Tories are still reactionary.</p>
<p>Consider their opposition to allowing lesbian mothers to have kids through IVF. Their anti-poverty policies are rubbish. (not that Labour is much better)&#8230; there is no compassion in their immigration policy. </p>
<p>What I mean is, apart from jumping on the environment bandwagon, how does all this translate into policies?</p>
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		<title>By: ukliberty</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10404</link>
		<dc:creator>ukliberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 14:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10404</guid>
		<description>In this context, what really matters is what people do, not what they claim to be.  Banging on about who is progressive and who is lying about being progressive is boring.

Besides, most of the population probably has no idea what 'progressive' historically means. But it does sound nice, doesn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this context, what really matters is what people do, not what they claim to be.  Banging on about who is progressive and who is lying about being progressive is boring.</p>
<p>Besides, most of the population probably has no idea what &#8216;progressive&#8217; historically means. But it does sound nice, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben G</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10402</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 14:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10402</guid>
		<description>"As for environmentalism: that was a right-wing cause earlier and longer than it was a left-wing one."

 That may be true, but the funny thing is hostility to the "environmental industry"/"global warming myth" blah blah is now the almost exclusive preserve of the hard conservative right, that barking few who, curiously enough, would be the very tiny minority who *are* actively offended at the very concept of "progress", ie. Peter Hitchens, Mel Phillips, Littlejohn, Heffer.

Cameron uses the word precisely for that reason, to differentiate himself from that crowd in the electorate's mind. The ploy seems to be having some success given his poll ratings, worse luck. Apart from its symbolic value for this purpose, the word has now, as Dave says, been rendered pretty meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As for environmentalism: that was a right-wing cause earlier and longer than it was a left-wing one.&#8221;</p>
<p> That may be true, but the funny thing is hostility to the &#8220;environmental industry&#8221;/&#8221;global warming myth&#8221; blah blah is now the almost exclusive preserve of the hard conservative right, that barking few who, curiously enough, would be the very tiny minority who *are* actively offended at the very concept of &#8220;progress&#8221;, ie. Peter Hitchens, Mel Phillips, Littlejohn, Heffer.</p>
<p>Cameron uses the word precisely for that reason, to differentiate himself from that crowd in the electorate&#8217;s mind. The ploy seems to be having some success given his poll ratings, worse luck. Apart from its symbolic value for this purpose, the word has now, as Dave says, been rendered pretty meaningless.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10398</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 12:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10398</guid>
		<description>Bishop Hill is right - the left don't have exclusive rights to progress.

More importantly: Cameron's current course isn't "faux audacieux", it's real, He is uncovering genuine elements of Tory appeal - buried under laissez-faire by Thatcher, but central to the party from '45 through to the 70s. Cassilis makes this point better than anybody else I've seen recently: http://www.cassilis.co.uk/2008/05/change-is-real-deal-with-it.html. In many ways, we're returning to the centrism of the Wilson/Heath/Callaghan era, (albeit without the unions and the nationalised industries and the constant exchange-rate kerfuffles), and Cameron fits in there just as well as Brown does.

As for environmentalism: that was a right-wing cause earlier and longer than it was a left-wing one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bishop Hill is right - the left don&#8217;t have exclusive rights to progress.</p>
<p>More importantly: Cameron&#8217;s current course isn&#8217;t &#8220;faux audacieux&#8221;, it&#8217;s real, He is uncovering genuine elements of Tory appeal - buried under laissez-faire by Thatcher, but central to the party from &#8216;45 through to the 70s. Cassilis makes this point better than anybody else I&#8217;ve seen recently: <a href="http://www.cassilis.co.uk/2008/05/change-is-real-deal-with-it.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cassilis.co.uk/2008/05/change-is-real-deal-with-it.html</a>. In many ways, we&#8217;re returning to the centrism of the Wilson/Heath/Callaghan era, (albeit without the unions and the nationalised industries and the constant exchange-rate kerfuffles), and Cameron fits in there just as well as Brown does.</p>
<p>As for environmentalism: that was a right-wing cause earlier and longer than it was a left-wing one.</p>
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		<title>By: thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10391</link>
		<dc:creator>thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 10:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10391</guid>
		<description>@2 Just as everything we don't like is 'neo-liberal' illiberalism, so everything we should like is classically liberal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@2 Just as everything we don&#8217;t like is &#8216;neo-liberal&#8217; illiberalism, so everything we should like is classically liberal.</p>
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		<title>By: Bishop Hill</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10390</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishop Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 10:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10390</guid>
		<description>I've commented before on this site's use of "liberalism" to mean "statism". Likewise "fairness", "social justice", "freedom", "poverty", all of which are used in non-standard ways to create a the required "mood". It's the same thing, and it's the politician's stock in trade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve commented before on this site&#8217;s use of &#8220;liberalism&#8221; to mean &#8220;statism&#8221;. Likewise &#8220;fairness&#8221;, &#8220;social justice&#8221;, &#8220;freedom&#8221;, &#8220;poverty&#8221;, all of which are used in non-standard ways to create a the required &#8220;mood&#8221;. It&#8217;s the same thing, and it&#8217;s the politician&#8217;s stock in trade.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Bienkov</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10389</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Bienkov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 10:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10389</guid>
		<description>Just as anything we don't like is 'fascist' so everything we do like is 'progressive'.

The word has died. Cameron was just giving it one last kick for good luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as anything we don&#8217;t like is &#8216;fascist&#8217; so everything we do like is &#8216;progressive&#8217;.</p>
<p>The word has died. Cameron was just giving it one last kick for good luck.</p>
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		<title>By: douglas clark</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10386</link>
		<dc:creator>douglas clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 09:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/05/14/who-else-wants-to-be-a-progressive/#comment-10386</guid>
		<description>David,

Excellent comment. I suppose we can expect the word Liberal to go down the toilet sometime soon too. Nick Griffin will say "we're all liberals now" and we're shafted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Excellent comment. I suppose we can expect the word Liberal to go down the toilet sometime soon too. Nick Griffin will say &#8220;we&#8217;re all liberals now&#8221; and we&#8217;re shafted.</p>
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