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	<title>Comments on: Embarassing endorsements?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/</link>
	<description>If there wasn't one before, it's time we started it...</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: septicisle</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8382</link>
		<dc:creator>septicisle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8382</guid>
		<description>David, do you ever get tired of demanding that others condemn groups that you and the decents don't much like?

This is pretty simple: whether the BNP can any longer be accurately described as a fascist organisation is open to debate, but it certainly still is a racist organisation and a large majority of its footsoldiers are fascists, as the briefest look at Stormfront will confirm.  The BNP could significantly help Johnson into power if their voters do put him down as their second choice, having won 3% of the vote last time round.  It's therefore quite right that Johnson said that he didn't want their grubby support.

As you point out, the MAB has nothing like the sort of influence that the BNP does.  The impact of its call for its supporters to vote for Labour, the Libs and Respect will be negligible, not coming anything close to turning the vote.  Therefore they do not to tell them where to stick their votes; it won't make any difference.  Condemning them will just be an empty gesture, but Harry's Place seems to love empty gestures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, do you ever get tired of demanding that others condemn groups that you and the decents don&#8217;t much like?</p>
<p>This is pretty simple: whether the BNP can any longer be accurately described as a fascist organisation is open to debate, but it certainly still is a racist organisation and a large majority of its footsoldiers are fascists, as the briefest look at Stormfront will confirm.  The BNP could significantly help Johnson into power if their voters do put him down as their second choice, having won 3% of the vote last time round.  It&#8217;s therefore quite right that Johnson said that he didn&#8217;t want their grubby support.</p>
<p>As you point out, the MAB has nothing like the sort of influence that the BNP does.  The impact of its call for its supporters to vote for Labour, the Libs and Respect will be negligible, not coming anything close to turning the vote.  Therefore they do not to tell them where to stick their votes; it won&#8217;t make any difference.  Condemning them will just be an empty gesture, but Harry&#8217;s Place seems to love empty gestures.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunny Hundal</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8371</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny Hundal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8371</guid>
		<description>David, I think its important to be nuanced about where Muslim organisations are placed. As M4E points out above, Hizb ut-Tahrir is more extremist than this "fascist" organisation. So what do you call them? And then Al-Muhajiroun is worse than Hizb ut-Tahrir, and worse still is Al-Qaeda itself. If MAB are fascist, what does that make Al-Qaeda?

I don't have any love lost for the MAB but they're not very different to other orgs that mix politics and religion very closely. The Indians have the RSS... while the Christians in the States have a whole load of them.

If the MAB are clerical fascists, then the Christian Zionist orgs in the States are also fascist organisations. I just think the word 'fascist' in this case does more harm than convey the real problem with these groups. That they're looking for legitimacy is a real issue and that they should be ignored is also true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I think its important to be nuanced about where Muslim organisations are placed. As M4E points out above, Hizb ut-Tahrir is more extremist than this &#8220;fascist&#8221; organisation. So what do you call them? And then Al-Muhajiroun is worse than Hizb ut-Tahrir, and worse still is Al-Qaeda itself. If MAB are fascist, what does that make Al-Qaeda?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any love lost for the MAB but they&#8217;re not very different to other orgs that mix politics and religion very closely. The Indians have the RSS&#8230; while the Christians in the States have a whole load of them.</p>
<p>If the MAB are clerical fascists, then the Christian Zionist orgs in the States are also fascist organisations. I just think the word &#8216;fascist&#8217; in this case does more harm than convey the real problem with these groups. That they&#8217;re looking for legitimacy is a real issue and that they should be ignored is also true.</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8368</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8368</guid>
		<description>Don't worry about David T - the Decentists just love a game of &lt;a href="http://decentpedia.blogspot.com/2007/08/will-you-condemn-thon.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;will you condemn...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry about David T - the Decentists just love a game of <a href="http://decentpedia.blogspot.com/2007/08/will-you-condemn-thon.html" rel="nofollow">will you condemn&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Margin4 Error</title>
		<link>http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8362</link>
		<dc:creator>Margin4 Error</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2008/04/14/embarassing-endorsements/#comment-8362</guid>
		<description>I'm not really sure that comparing this group to he BNP works. 

http://www.mabonline.net/about_us.php 

According to their site this group stands for what is probably a quite reasonable ambition - ie. integration of muslims in british society. They oppose human rights abuses of muslims in the war on terror. And they take part in activities against extremism and war. There is no strong history of this group existing for abhorrent aims. 

The same is not true of the BNP - which was originally quite open about being a racially nationalist - and which though less open about that now, still maintains policies on the deporting of 'descendents of immigrants' (or ethnic minorities to you and I)  http://www.bnp.org.uk/ 

So surely this article would make more sense were it about hizb-ut-tahrir who openly seek to establish a fascist state http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/who-is-ht/our-method/our-method.html 

Of course some members of MAB might be dispicable. But so are some members of the Labour and Lib Dem Parties. 

Thats not the same thing as the groups themselves being bad. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not really sure that comparing this group to he BNP works. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.mabonline.net/about_us.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.mabonline.net/about_us.php</a> </p>
<p>According to their site this group stands for what is probably a quite reasonable ambition - ie. integration of muslims in british society. They oppose human rights abuses of muslims in the war on terror. And they take part in activities against extremism and war. There is no strong history of this group existing for abhorrent aims. </p>
<p>The same is not true of the BNP - which was originally quite open about being a racially nationalist - and which though less open about that now, still maintains policies on the deporting of &#8216;descendents of immigrants&#8217; (or ethnic minorities to you and I)  <a href="http://www.bnp.org.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bnp.org.uk/</a> </p>
<p>So surely this article would make more sense were it about hizb-ut-tahrir who openly seek to establish a fascist state <a href="http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/who-is-ht/our-method/our-method.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/who-is-ht/our-method/our-method.html</a> </p>
<p>Of course some members of MAB might be dispicable. But so are some members of the Labour and Lib Dem Parties. </p>
<p>Thats not the same thing as the groups themselves being bad.<br />
&#8212;</p>
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